Truth From Odd Places
"It has been necessary to move these individuals to an environment where they can be held in secret, questioned by experts and, when appropriate, prosecuted for terrorist acts."It is the absolute truth. Of course you need to interpret carefully here:
The US doesn't torture. So said Condi Rice (formerly credible cabinet Secretary) ... It's the absolute truth, if only by means of some truly bizarre acts of literary contortion.
You gotta love this White House: they tell the absolute truth at all times.
In mathematics there is a concept called "absolute numbers" in which a number always implies its opposite. Absolute 1 (written |1|) is a quantity whose value can be 1 or -1.
|The United States does not torture|.
So said Condi. But wait a second--looky here.
"The United States has not transported anyone, and will not transport anyone, to a country when we believe he will be tortured."(Italics mine)
Uh, Mizz Rice--shall we tell the president? Oh--and here's a little gem:
However, [Rice] did not discuss news reports that the CIA runs secret U.S. detention centers in certain East European countries.Italics ditto.
"We cannot discuss information that would compromise the success of intelligence, law enforcement, and military operations," she said.[My bold]
The United States has been asked formally by the European Union, the Council of Europe and several individual countries about news reports about such secret facilities.
Now what did Dubya say about the New York Times blowing his cover on the illegal wiretaps? Oh--yeah he said that the:
" ... disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk."Yup. He pretty much called them traitors for blowing a secret wartime intelligence tool, or calling bullshit on his Gestapo tactics, as you will.
What would he call someone who disclosed the existence of secret |non-torturing| prisons maintained overseas by the CIA?
Looks like someone better tell that man to shut up. He might be convicted of treason and shipped off to ...
Well, we're not going to talk about that.
posted by Metro @ 2:30 pm
3 Comments:
Plain and simple Metro.
You're a Pansy!
I don't care what we're doing to those vile people who have a desire to conspire to kill Americans.
"But wait..what about the innocent people who may be there?"
Didn't our mothers tell us to be careful who we ran with? If they're caught in the middle by associating with terrorists...so be it.
For the love of God, grow up, grow a spine and stop complaining. I'd venture to say that you could care less whether or not my country is torturing terrorists. You're just excitied to have another topic to call Bush a liar on.
Thank God you're type of weak thinking doesn't prevail in my nation's pursuit of low life crab apples who deserve nothing more than bread, water and a good ass kicking when they wake up.
One day, you'll understand. And I'll be sad and cry right alongside you when your countrymen perish by a sensless terrorist attack. Your first reaction will be to have compassion for those that did it I'm sure. I can only up you find your balls and have a change of heart before you and your family have to start speaking Arabic after the invasion.
DOn't worry too much though, we'll be there to save your asses....again.
Hi 'Nonny:
Glad to see you here with your usual informed, honest, logical comments.
Oops--sorry, clearly I was thinking of someone else.
You start out talking about my sexuality; later you say something about wanting to find my balls. Insults are like drinks and affect one only if accepted. But it does make me wonder what the source of this odd insecurity of yours is. Never mind, I'm sure you're just fine.
You bring up "innocent people who may be in there". You seem to have missed my point. Let's see if I can bring some logic to this debate:
#1 Torture is wrong
#2 It doesn't work
#3 It assumes there is some sort of "supercrime". Terrorists are murderers. No different from someone who shoots up his workplace or high school.
I don't care if the person's innocent or guilty. If we're better than "they" are, let's damn well act like it.
Oh--well we don't televise torture. That's true. We wait for the bootleg pics to hit the net and then we deny, deny, deny. Then a year later we admit that actually, it's true (See Bush, as per my post, Rumsfeld, Condi ... ).
Opaque, secretive, conspiratorial government--part of the proud tradition of freedom and democracy *** is trying to spread at gunpoint.
Re. "Our mothers told us to be careful who we run with". I can only aswer you with this: there's this thing called the First Amendment that says that you can "run with" whoever you want. And you're answer will be "But they're foreigners. Which is why the current regime is so highly regarded worldwide.
"Grow a spine". I will if you will, "Anonymous".
"Stop complaining".
In a word, "No". Where do you think your precious republic would be had the Founding Fathers just stopped complaining?
--Of course it might be almost as nice as Canada, then. Sad to think we're unlikely ever to find out.
To answer your assertion that all I want to do is crap on ***. I thought you read this blog?
I worry about the torture issue and the associated infringements on basic human rights because, as a Canadian, given my nation's participation in the Afghan invasion (Which I fully supported, by the way, at the time), I am being tarred with the same brush as bush country.
Our soldiers, US and Canadian, are proud and noble people for the most part, making sacrifices we cannot imagine ...
So that Dubya and cronies can terrorize the population at home and abroad? Invade sovereign countries? Kill and torture in the name of "freedom"?
Has all this, d'you think, made my homeland less or more likely to accumulate the sort of resentment that leads to a WTC attack?
And sweetie, I don't need yet another reason to call GWB a liar. He is one; year after year. It's kind of comforting to know he'll never tell the whole truth.
Cocaine use, his mysterious
Air Guard service, "weapons of mass destruction" ... this comment is already long enough so let's just leave it at that, shall we?
Oh, and of course as covered in this post: "The US does not commit torture*++ (see below for details).
And who the hell are you to call my thinking weak?
I'm the one saying my nation must stand up and fight international terrorism on our terms. Like free people, not on terms set by terrorist, using the worst practices of terrorists; not hiding behind my government and saying "Put me in a cage so I'll be safe, please."
And do not dare imply, sir, that I was other than saddened by the terror attacks on the WTC. And in Oklahoma city.
You and your feeble-minded accusation may go straight to hell on this point. Understood?
Your comment that I'll have "compassion" is revealing. I will. I will not assume that all brown people are my enemy. I won't go out and kill people in turbans from pure suspicion. I won't deport people to torture prisons. I won't claim that a ten-to-one civillian-to-terrorist kill ratio is justifiable. I won't use TWAT to springboard the personal ambitions of my Prime Minister.
That's compassion. Well actually it's called basic human decency--but don't ask *** for any.
From your comment I take it that these things are fine and dandy with you, though.
And do you truly, really believe that there's a terror force in existence that can actually invade North America? What a fascinating world you must live in!
Sounds gloomy and paranoia-inducing to me though; I personally like to reside in a place we call reality, but I respect your opinion.
Of course, reality would include the realisation that no-one has ever "saved our asses" here in Canada.
Are you referring to WWI or WWII, where the British Empire paid the cost in blood of blunting the sharp edge of the German invasion?
Or are you thinking about Korea, Gulf War I, or Afghanistan, where Canadians fought and died alongside US soldiers as allies from the get-go?
Have they fixed the targetting system on the Warthog yet, by the way?
Maybe 1812? Oh--sorry, that was a US/Canada thing, wasn't it.
We've benefited from having neighbourly relations with the US until now. Thanks to Dubya, that now comes with a blood price most of us want to think very carefully about paying.
There are almost certainly innocents in CIA black prisons. We'll never know for sure, of course. But I'm sure the American people prefer it that way:
"For god's sake don't tell me what you're up to. It's not right that I should know what my elected officials do (unless they're getting sucked off by interns)."
It sure seems like you do anyway.
One can excuse much of the US population for this attitude: I'm sure I'd want plausible deniability if I were ever called to account for my vote for the Bush league.
*Certain conditions apply, not void where prohibited. Torture as defined by US Goverment may not match the terms and conditions of other governments, or even our treaty obligations, let alone moral ones.
++We reserve the right to redefine torture to exclude the following: Waterboarding, bastinado, staking out on anthills, and forced listening to Annie Coulter readings and/or Rush Limbaugh recordings.
Metro,
The yanks created these terrorists, now it's only right they dispatch of them.
They are amateurs when it comes to dealing with the Muslim world. They are factional, they infight and they are better off infighting.
The trick is to get them fighting each other, otherwise they start trying to fight us.
Islam is not a peaceful religion Metro, go read about how Muhammed 'spread the word'.
The new balance of power in the middle east is a powerful nuclear Israel and a powerful, soon to be nuclear Iran - this should be fun for the next 10 years - you'll have plenty more wars to blog about.
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